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 Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death

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Errutu
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PostSubject: Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death   Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 pm

Posing Question:

If a model with Eternal Warrior and Feel no Pain is hit with a weapon with the Instant Death rule, does that model still get Feel No Pain?

Lets first define the 3 entries:
Eternal Warrior (pg 35): A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of Instant Death.
Feel no Pain (pg 35): (too much to type) Important stuff = On a 5+, the Unsaved Wound is discounted - treat as having been saved. Note that Feel No Pain rolls cannot be made against unsaved wounds that inflict Instant Death.
Instant Death (pg 38): Unsaved Wounds inflicted by an attack with this special rule automatically inflict Instant Death, regardless of the victim's Toughness (See page 16) Pg 16 says: If a model suffers an unsaved wound from an attack that has a strength value of double its toughness value or greater, it is reduced to 0 wounds and removed as a casualty

Lets have an example:
My Blood Angel Sanguinor Leads the Charge in front of (but not attached to) a 10 man Assault Squad with attached Sanguinary Priest(SP for short). The Sanguinor takes a Melta gun to the face and fails the 3+ inv save.

Now being within 6" of the SP, the Sanguinor is granted the Feel No Pain rule, however it was a melta gun (str Cool giving the double tough instant death rule. The Sanguinor is Eternal Warrior, which means no Unsaved wounds can inflict instant death. Since Instant Death was not inflicted, I roll the 5+ Feel No Pain.

So as I read it: Eternal Warrior is immune (protected) against the one thing that denies Feel No Pain, and therefore allowed to take the 5+.

Agree / Disagree / See holes in my argument?? Post it up
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pieeater5
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PostSubject: Re: Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death   Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:39 am

but is the melta ap 1?
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PostSubject: Re: Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death   Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:03 am

It sounds gamey to me. Double strength ignores feel no pain, Eternal warrior keeps you from being doubled out.

The way I read the entries, the attack would still inflict instant death, since it is double, there by ignoreing your feel no pain, but your character is then immune to it, so he isn't killed out right, he just takes a wound.
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Errutu
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PostSubject: Re: Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death   Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:50 pm

@Pieeatter 5 - Yes. AP1 Standard Imperial Issue

@Madlarkin - I dont disagree. The issue is how Feel No Pain is written. If an unsaved wound inflicts instant death, the model is removed. If the model isn't removed because it is Eternal, Instant Death was not inflicted, then it has the right to shrug the wound off on a 5+.

In the previous Edition, Feel No Pain was quite selective... "NO AP1, AP2 or Wounds from POWER weapons." This Edition is quite lax. But was also a 4+.

Basically, it boils down to our interpretation of the english Language. You cannot Inflict something upon me that I am Immune to. If something limits me based on a restriction, that restriction does not apply to me. Therefore, I am allowed.


I want to shift gears and bring up another Question:
A Dark Eldar Archon with Power From pain and 1 pain token has Feel No Pain. A Shadow Field grants him a 2+ INV save until he's failed one save. He must take saves one at time until he fails. If an Archon failed a 2+, but made the 5+ FNP (assuming he wasn't instantly killed). Does the 2+ remain? FNP is worded as "Treat as having been saved".
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KOMOSUNDER
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PostSubject: Re: Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death   Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:35 pm

I'm not going to pretend I know all the in and outs of the DE codec, but does it read you must roll them one at a time?
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Errutu
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PostSubject: Re: Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death   Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:05 pm

KOMOSUNDER wrote:
I'm not going to pretend I know all the in and outs of the DE codec, but does it read you must roll them one at a time?

Yes. Typically after the 2+ is gone, the Archon is a 5+ AV unless upgraded to a 4+/6+ with Ghostplate Armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death   Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:24 am

So here is my 2 cents,

On the first subject: If you read the rules as they are written, then yes you get the FnP. Since the wording of Eternal Warrior states you are immune to instant death. You can't be doubled out. So if you cant be doubled out then no instant death is inflicted and there for you get your FnP. This is one of those rules that I have been dealing with a lot playing against Nurgle armies and with my Blood Angels. And this is what we have concluded.

On the second subject: So if the rule reads that you have a +2 save till one is failed then you would loose that ability, since you failed that armour/invuln save. If the rule were to read +2 until you take a wound then it would stay after the FnP save.
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PostSubject: Re: Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain and Instant Death   Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:14 pm

The 2+ is voided after a save is failed. And as they are rolled one at a time (as all saves are done now), the Feel no pain occurs immediately after each failed save. The RAW on FNP says "treat it as having saved". So if I treat it as having saved, technically, the next save is still a 2+ because I treat it as having saved.

Granted, this is a stretch. I mostly have this up as an example of the conflicting rules we come across. Or how certain things have a new type of synergy. And only for a certain codex/wargear. No different than the 5th Ed "Necron Catacomb Command Barge being immobilized after going flat out" debate (do not start that debate here! Post a new thread if you want to).

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